The significant investment of nearly £500m by Merseytravel to replace the existing carriages and also level the platforms has come with some benefits and even the financing has adopted a new approach which has given some added value.

The new trains benefit from panoramic style windows, air conditioning, more room for cycles and wheelchairs and an added safety element in the sense that you can see right through all of the carriages.

However, the ‘bottom line’ – please excuse the pun – is that the seats themselves are narrower, closer together and less well upholstered and as one lady who sat next to me last week said “it was like sitting on a slab of concrete”.

The other problem is that during the consultation process, the public made it very clear that they did not want what is described as ‘airline’ seating and yet this has been introduced and is very uncomfortable and anyone sitting at the window seat has to ask the person sitting next to them to get up and stand to enable them to get out which in itself will cause congestion.

The public made it clear that they wanted the 4x4 seating to maintain the same standard from the old carriages and so spending such a significant amount of money but ending up with a more uncomfortable journey for most people puts the validity of the whole scheme in jeopardy.

There is little that can be done but at some stage there really will need to be a reassessment of the seating format and configuration to benefit the public and it is a shame that what were very clear expressions of preference were not fully recognised when the new carriages were commissioned.

Councillor Sir Ron Watston CBE
Dukes Ward Councillor
Sefton Council

The seats are consistent with what you would find on urban railways across Europe.

Although some of us do travel say Southport to Liverpool for 40 minutes or so but the great majority of journeys are four or five stops.

Watson's letter is a manifestation of the Tories' tactics for the next few months....simply forget the national mess and ty to dredge up local issues, especially if it slights a Labour-controlled administration.

What he overlooks is the general levels of reliability and customer satisfaction Merseyrail clocks up.

^True, but then there are a lot more obese specimens amongst the population nowadays, with fatness becoming the norm rather than the exception. To accommodate all those those big bums, it may have been wiser to fit wider sets and arrange them on a 2 plus 1 basis, rather than the existing 2 plus 2. Do that and you do though lose 25% of seating capacity.

Originally Posted by bensherman

The seats are consistent with what you would find on urban railways across Europe.

Although some of us do travel say Southport to Liverpool for 40 minutes or so but the great majority of journeys are four or five stops.

Watson's letter is a manifestation of the Tories' tactics for the next few months....simply forget the national mess and ty to dredge up local issues, especially if it slights a Labour-controlled administration.

What he overlooks is the general levels of reliability and customer satisfaction Merseyrail clocks up.

Watson would also have you believe the entire seating arrangement in the carriages are ‘coach style’. They’re not, the traditional 4x4 seating is mixed in with the new style.

Surely slimmer leaner people need more padding on their seats?

Those "chunkier" people have their own cushions.

With so much public money involved it seems reasonable to look at the seemingly ignored consultation process.

The last train I went on in Germany had much more comfortable seats.

Originally Posted by local

Surely slimmer leaner people need more padding on their seats?

Those "chunkier" people have their own cushions.

With so much public money involved it seems reasonable to look at the seemingly ignored consultation process.

The last train I went on in Germany had much more comfortable seats.

There’s nothing wrong with the seats. I travelled from Ormskirk to Central and back last night. Perfectly comfortable for my slimmer leaner self :)

Originally Posted by The PNP

^True, but then there are a lot more obese specimens amongst the population nowadays, with fatness becoming the norm rather than the exception. To accommodate all those those big bums, it may have been wiser to fit wider sets and arrange them on a 2 plus 1 basis, rather than the existing 2 plus 2. Do that and you do though lose 25% of seating capacity.

Trust you to come up with one of your pet generalisations about other people.

You just can't help yourself, Mr Perfect, can you?

Originally Posted by The PNP

^True, but then there are a lot more obese specimens amongst the population nowadays, with fatness becoming the norm rather than the exception. To accommodate all those those big bums, it may have been wiser to fit wider sets and arrange them on a 2 plus 1 basis, rather than the existing 2 plus 2. Do that and you do though lose 25% of seating capacity.

***t

Originally Posted by Stuartli

Trust you to come up with one of your pet generalisations about other people.

You just can't help yourself, Mr Perfect, can you?

Well, if you'd ever tried to fit yourself onto a bus seat next to one of the 'go lightly' brigade, you'd know what I'm talking about.

I find the seats uncomfortable, they're too hard and quickly set my sciatica off!

Originally Posted by The PNP

Well, if you'd ever tried to fit yourself onto a bus seat next to one of the 'go lightly' brigade, you'd know what I'm talking about.

You never take into consideration in your sarcastic comments about others that they may be suffering from health problems.

But of course, Mr Perfect, you would never, ever suffer from such problems.

Originally Posted by Stuartli

You never take into consideration in your sarcastic comments about others that they may be suffering from health problems.

But of course, Mr Perfect, you would never, ever suffer from such problems.

You are of course referring to the obesity epidemic that has engulfed this Sceptred Isle of ours....Best keep your distance from the fatso's then mate, or you too may unwittingly succumb!

Originally Posted by The PNP

You are of course referring to the obesity epidemic that has engulfed this Sceptred Isle of ours....Best keep your distance from the fatso's then mate, or you too may unwittingly succumb!

You really are a disgusting piece of filth aren’t you.

Originally Posted by local

Surely slimmer leaner people need more padding on their seats?

Those "chunkier" people have their own cushions.

With so much public money involved it seems reasonable to look at the seemingly ignored consultation process.

The last train I went on in Germany had much more comfortable seats.

it wasn't ignored
I remember people being invited to try and comment on the carriages and seats.
As for the seating in Germany, in the last year have sampled local and intercity trains in Freiburg and Strasbourg, and they were different but all fine for the type of travel.

Originally Posted by bensherman

it wasn't ignored
I remember people being invited to try and comment on the carriages and seats.
As for the seating in Germany, in the last year have sampled local and intercity trains in Freiburg and Strasbourg, and they were different but all fine for the type of travel.

Thalys to/from NL/Belgium, was good back in the day. Quality transport that, even provided the days newspapers for passengers to read 'gratis'. Shame it got absorbed into Eurostar imo.

But when it comes to seating, you can't beat the old compartment and corridor trains of yesteryear. They were properly sprung, covered in hardwearing fabric which had real horsehair in the weave and each seat had its own cotton BR 'napkin' on the headrest, to prevent haircream etc, from soiling the upholstery. Ahh, those were the days!